Bosch K-Jetronic Tuning
The following is an email strand between myself and Bill Strand regarding the tuning his Bosch K-Jetronic fuel system on his BMW 320i. In includes instructions on cleaning your warm-up regulator, a part that often fails due to the presence of unwanted build-up from fuel over the years.
Warning: This strand is quite lengthy, but has a lot of good information in it.
I hope it is helpful. Let me know. Reprinted with permission from Bill Strand.
Warning: This strand is quite lengthy, but has a lot of good information in it.
I hope it is helpful. Let me know. Reprinted with permission from Bill Strand.
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 12:08 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: Re: warm start
Brandon,
I just finished downloading the wiring diagrams and Bosch terminal
disignations from your website. Much better than what is included in my
Haynes manual.
You were right- I received alot of advice about the warm start problem. I
believe you may have the correct diagnosis, as I feel the engine is running
like a carbureted engine would run with the choke on all the time.
I've only put about 150 miles on the car since I replaced the tranny/clutch,
but some of the symptoms I've observed are consistent with a rich fuel/air
mixture: poor mileage, no top end power, overly hot catalytic converter. I'm
going to pull the plugs out and see what they look like with 150 miles on
them. I expect they will be sooty.
So I'd like to fiddle with the warmup regulator, like you suggested. The
only problem is that I have a British Haynes manual, and there is only a
small supplement in the back concerning US cars and their fuel/emissions
systems. They have a photograph which supposedly shows the warmup regulator,
but the arrow points into a shadowed area where nothing can be discerned. At
least I know about where it is. I also plan on having a look at the cold
start valve and heat/time switch.
I was wondering if maybe you could give me a little e-mail coaching in what
to look for, what to expect upon disassembly, and what NOT to do.
Meanwhile, I've got a couple of other little problems to attend to:
1)Coolant temperature gauge does an ocassional jump. Replaced the
temperature sensor, but no change. Possible short somewhere?
2)Vibration from driveline at 30mph (smooth above 30). Center support
bearing?
I hope to find the time to get all my "little problems" sorted out in time
to drive the car to Seattle to San Francisco and back over Labor Day
weekend. Any suggestions you could offer would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Bill Strand
billstrand@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Whitehead, Brandon" <Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu>
To: "'billstrand@hotmail.com'" <billstrand@hotmail.com>
Subject: warm start
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:02:58 -0700
You have the notorious warm start problem, and will likely get a lot of
advice. Your warmup regulator is probably wearing or clogged with gunk.
What happens is this. The warm up reg doesn't close all the way when the
car is warm, and makes your mixture too rich. Try leaning out your mixture
a little and see if it helps. You might be able to find a mix that makes
the warm start problem go away, and doesn't mess up your idle too much
either. If you can do that, I't suggest it. do you know how to adjust your
mix. Also, you can try cleaning the warmup regulator. Its really quite
easy, most people are just afraid to try and risk ruining a $130 part.
Let me know what you find out. I know this system pretty well.
~Brandon Whitehead
http://bmw.1211.org
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 12:34 PM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: warm start
First, Bill, what year is your car? If its pre 80, then I have a regulator
for sale if you want it.
To clean it, here goes:
Its bolted to the engine block on the drivers side, just in front of the
starter if I remember correctly. If you want a picture of what you are
looking for, look at http://parts.1211.org It should be easy to spot.
There are two fuel lines coming out of the top. Remove them. Be careful
not to loose any little washers or gaskets. Then there are two bolts
holding it the block. Remove them and remove the regulator. GENERALLY,
the regulator fails because it gets clogged up with junk in the fuel
system over a period of years, and doesn't close completely when it needs
to. The other possibilities are the O-rings going bad, or the bimetallic
strip failing.
To clean it, remove the four screws on the corners (flat on mine) to open
it up. You will see that there is a pin, a spring, and metal plate, in
addition to the bimetallic strip. To test the strip, plug the regulator
into a 12 volt source. If it gets hot, it'll probably work fine. If not,
the regulator is shot.
Next, gently lift the little silvery plate. Under it you should see two
o-ringts. Gently remove them and clean them, and clean both sides of the
metal plate. Make sure there is nothing obstructing the little holes under
the plate either. That is where the fuel comes in and out. Also, check to
see that the fuel holes on the outside are clear. If the o rings are bad,
or the plate (should be perfectly flat) is damaged, the unit it damaged and
needs replacement.
After you clean everything, put it all back together. Its pretty simple
and self explanitory. Put it back in the car, and test it. It may take a
long crank to bleed the fuel system.
I hope that does it. If you still have problems, feel free to ask. I've
got some other tips up my sleve.
~Brandon Whitehead
http://bmw.1211.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 12:08 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: Re: warm start
Brandon,
I just finished downloading the wiring diagrams and Bosch terminal
disignations from your website. Much better than what is included in my
Haynes manual.
You were right- I received alot of advice about the warm start problem. I
believe you may have the correct diagnosis, as I feel the engine is running
like a carbureted engine would run with the choke on all the time.
I've only put about 150 miles on the car since I replaced the tranny/clutch,
but some of the symptoms I've observed are consistent with a rich fuel/air
mixture: poor mileage, no top end power, overly hot catalytic converter. I'm
going to pull the plugs out and see what they look like with 150 miles on
them. I expect they will be sooty.
So I'd like to fiddle with the warmup regulator, like you suggested. The
only problem is that I have a British Haynes manual, and there is only a
small supplement in the back concerning US cars and their fuel/emissions
systems. They have a photograph which supposedly shows the warmup regulator,
but the arrow points into a shadowed area where nothing can be discerned. At
least I know about where it is. I also plan on having a look at the cold
start valve and heat/time switch.
I was wondering if maybe you could give me a little e-mail coaching in what
to look for, what to expect upon disassembly, and what NOT to do.
Meanwhile, I've got a couple of other little problems to attend to:
1)Coolant temperature gauge does an ocassional jump. Replaced the
temperature sensor, but no change. Possible short somewhere?
2)Vibration from driveline at 30mph (smooth above 30). Center support
bearing?
I hope to find the time to get all my "little problems" sorted out in time
to drive the car to Seattle to San Francisco and back over Labor Day
weekend. Any suggestions you could offer would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Bill Strand
billstrand@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Whitehead, Brandon" <Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu>
To: "'billstrand@hotmail.com'" <billstrand@hotmail.com>
Subject: warm start
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:02:58 -0700
You have the notorious warm start problem, and will likely get a lot of
advice. Your warmup regulator is probably wearing or clogged with gunk.
What happens is this. The warm up reg doesn't close all the way when the
car is warm, and makes your mixture too rich. Try leaning out your mixture
a little and see if it helps. You might be able to find a mix that makes
the warm start problem go away, and doesn't mess up your idle too much
either. If you can do that, I't suggest it. do you know how to adjust your
mix. Also, you can try cleaning the warmup regulator. Its really quite
easy, most people are just afraid to try and risk ruining a $130 part.
Let me know what you find out. I know this system pretty well.
~Brandon Whitehead
http://bmw.1211.org
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 8:59 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: warm start
Brandon,
Thanks for the info. My car is an 1981 320i, so I don't know if your warmup
regulator would work, although it looks identical to mine.
I removed the regulator and disassembled it. It looked brand new inside. I
checked the bimetallic strip with 12v, and it heated up. I also disassembled
the diaphragm assembly and cleaned it thoroughly, although it also looked
very clean, and the "O" ring was in good shape.
Once I had it completely assembled, I decided to test it. In order to test
it, I had to make some assumptions on how it worked. Please correct me if I
am wrong!
1) When the car and regulator are cold, the bimetallic strip pushes against
the spring, keeping it from applying its full load to the diaphragm. This
allows fuel to be forced under pressure through the regulator, enriching the
fuel/air mixture.
2) When the car is started, power is applied to the bimetallic strip. This
causes the strip to slowly heat up and bend, allowing the spring to apply
more force to the diaphragm. When the strip reaches it's maximum temperature
and bend, the fuel flow through the regulator should cease, and the fuel/air
mixture leans out.
3) (This is purely a guess) After a calibrated period of time, the engine
warms sufficiently to keep the strip warm without having power applied to
it, so a relay cuts the power to the strip.
This whole process would be similar to an automatic choke on a carbureted
engine.
Now that I had it figured out (or not?), I decided to test it on the car. I
hooked the fuel supply line back up to the regulator and cranked the engine
over. There was no power applied to the strip and it was at ambient
temperature. A small amount of fuel did dribble out of the other port of the
regulator.
Next, I applied 12v to the strip for 10 minutes. I figured that would be a
sufficient amount of time for the strip to reach it's operating temperature.
I then cranked the engine over again, and fuel again dribbled out of the
regulator.
From this I have concluded that either:
a) the warmup regulator is shot because the bimetallic strip is not bending
enough to allow the spring to close the regulator
-or-
b) my test is flawed, and the warmup regulator might still be good.
What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks for your support!
Bill
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 9:27 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: part #'s
The part number on my regulator is 0438140-071 (the -071 is stamped in, the
rest of the number is cast.
According to Carparts.com, the number stamped in the regulator you have for
sale should be -014 (same cast number, though). I can't quite tell from the
picture what the stamped number is, but if it is, indeed, -014, then I'm
looking at about $90 for a Beck Arnley replacement, or about $315 for a
Bosch.
Later,
Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 10:07 PM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: warm start
You are dead on right, ecept there is no relay.. it stays on ... just has a
resistor to keep it under control. As for closing... The bimetallic strip
raises the temperature initially, but because of the resistor, doesn't get
it hot enought to completely close it. Its bolted to the engine block so
that is can use the heat from the block. As you can see, then, its has to
get pretty warm to stop the flow. I'd test it on the block. Additionally,
keep in mind, while it probably looked very clean inside (plate) there was
probably a little yellowish circle on the underside. This is the problem.
I'd try to put it all the way back on the block and see how it works.
And actually, one more thing. I BELEIVE the regulator actually applies
pressure to the bottom of the plunger in the distributor, thereby causing
the air vain to go up a little more easily. Therefore, the venturi plate
goes up farther with the same amount of air force, making the mixture
richer as the result.
The best thing to do is this. Let the car get to operating tempature, and
THEN adjust the fuel mixture setting in the distributor so that you hit the
sweet spot. Once you are there, see how it starts hot, warm and cool.
Theoretically, it should do each fine. Being that your car is an 81, it
should have an o2 sensor. You can test the sweet spot by disconnecting the
o2 sensor and testing it with a multimeter. When its disconnected, the k-jet
will operate in a default mode where the the frequency valve will operate at
a 50% duty cycle. This is actually a little on the rich side. This may be
more confusing that its worth.
Generally, just listen to the sweet spot. Then listen to the frequency valve.
The idle should be pretty stable and the frequency valve should be operating at
between a 10% and 20% or so duty cycle. (remmember, you will only have one of
these if you have an o2 sensor)
Play with it a bit, and then let me know what happens.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 8:59 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: warm start
Brandon,
Thanks for the info. My car is an 1981 320i, so I don't know if your warmup
regulator would work, although it looks identical to mine.
I removed the regulator and disassembled it. It looked brand new inside. I
checked the bimetallic strip with 12v, and it heated up. I also disassembled
the diaphragm assembly and cleaned it thoroughly, although it also looked
very clean, and the "O" ring was in good shape.
Once I had it completely assembled, I decided to test it. In order to test
it, I had to make some assumptions on how it worked. Please correct me if I
am wrong!
1) When the car and regulator are cold, the bimetallic strip pushes against
the spring, keeping it from applying its full load to the diaphragm. This
allows fuel to be forced under pressure through the regulator, enriching the
fuel/air mixture.
2) When the car is started, power is applied to the bimetallic strip. This
causes the strip to slowly heat up and bend, allowing the spring to apply
more force to the diaphragm. When the strip reaches it's maximum temperature
and bend, the fuel flow through the regulator should cease, and the fuel/air
mixture leans out.
3) (This is purely a guess) After a calibrated period of time, the engine
warms sufficiently to keep the strip warm without having power applied to
it, so a relay cuts the power to the strip.
This whole process would be similar to an automatic choke on a carbureted
engine.
Now that I had it figured out (or not?), I decided to test it on the car. I
hooked the fuel supply line back up to the regulator and cranked the engine
over. There was no power applied to the strip and it was at ambient
temperature. A small amount of fuel did dribble out of the other port of the
regulator.
Next, I applied 12v to the strip for 10 minutes. I figured that would be a
sufficient amount of time for the strip to reach it's operating temperature.
I then cranked the engine over again, and fuel again dribbled out of the
regulator.
From this I have concluded that either:
a) the warmup regulator is shot because the bimetallic strip is not bending
enough to allow the spring to close the regulator
-or-
b) my test is flawed, and the warmup regulator might still be good.
What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks for your support!
Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 10:11 PM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: part #'s
yes, mine is a 014. And the bosch part should be about $115, not $315.
Also, if you get yours working better by cleaning it, you can usually play
with your mixture to find a happy medium where it will work fine, not
perfect, but fine.
~brandon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 9:27 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: part #'s
The part number on my regulator is 0438140-071 (the -071 is stamped in, the
rest of the number is cast.
According to Carparts.com, the number stamped in the regulator you have for
sale should be -014 (same cast number, though). I can't quite tell from the
picture what the stamped number is, but if it is, indeed, -014, then I'm
looking at about $90 for a Beck Arnley replacement, or about $315 for a
Bosch.
Later,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:39 AM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: warm start (cont.)
Brandon,
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with me. Keep it coming- I'm soaking
it up! I'm also writing it down for future reference.
I was wondering about the ability of the bimetallic strip to self-heat
enough to close the valve. Maybe I'll try my test again after bringing the
entire regulator "up to temperature" with a heat gun.
About the fuel flow volume through the regulator- I saw only a dribble, but
I assume that's enough to do the job. Plenty of volume available from the
supply line, though.
There was, indeed, a bit of yellowish varnish on the regulator diaphragm.
Hopefully, that was the problem.
I'll use the information you e-mailed me, as well as the e-group posting
number 305, to adjust the mixture. I plan to leave the oxygen sensor in
place, and run a lead to my DVM.
In your picture of the fuel distributer, is the mixture screw under that
looped piece of wire sticking up? I'm thinking that that's the handle to
remove the plug.
Another question: When I removed the air filter box, I noticed some oil in
the bottom, on the engine side of the filter. Is this something to worry
about? I can't think of where it might be coming from, unless it's just
accumulated goo from fuel vapors.
Again, thanks
Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 10:00 AM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: warm start (cont.)
Yes, the mixture screw is under the piece of wire with the looped top.
As for the oil, its probably caused by the emissions system. There is a
hose that runs from an outlet in the top of the valve cover near the firewall
that runs to the intake, I beleive just before the throttle plate. You can
clean the oil up, but there is nothing to worry about if there isn't much
which is what I would expect.
~Brandon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:39 AM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: warm start (cont.)
Brandon,
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with me. Keep it coming- I'm soaking
it up! I'm also writing it down for future reference.
I was wondering about the ability of the bimetallic strip to self-heat
enough to close the valve. Maybe I'll try my test again after bringing the
entire regulator "up to temperature" with a heat gun.
About the fuel flow volume through the regulator- I saw only a dribble, but
I assume that's enough to do the job. Plenty of volume available from the
supply line, though.
There was, indeed, a bit of yellowish varnish on the regulator diaphragm.
Hopefully, that was the problem.
I'll use the information you e-mailed me, as well as the e-group posting
number 305, to adjust the mixture. I plan to leave the oxygen sensor in
place, and run a lead to my DVM.
In your picture of the fuel distributer, is the mixture screw under that
looped piece of wire sticking up? I'm thinking that that's the handle to
remove the plug.
Another question: When I removed the air filter box, I noticed some oil in
the bottom, on the engine side of the filter. Is this something to worry
about? I can't think of where it might be coming from, unless it's just
accumulated goo from fuel vapors.
Again, thanks
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:39 AM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: warm start (cont.)
Brandon,
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with me. Keep it coming- I'm soaking
it up! I'm also writing it down for future reference.
I was wondering about the ability of the bimetallic strip to self-heat
enough to close the valve. Maybe I'll try my test again after bringing the
entire regulator "up to temperature" with a heat gun.
About the fuel flow volume through the regulator- I saw only a dribble, but
I assume that's enough to do the job. Plenty of volume available from the
supply line, though.
There was, indeed, a bit of yellowish varnish on the regulator diaphragm.
Hopefully, that was the problem.
I'll use the information you e-mailed me, as well as the e-group posting
number 305, to adjust the mixture. I plan to leave the oxygen sensor in
place, and run a lead to my DVM.
In your picture of the fuel distributer, is the mixture screw under that
looped piece of wire sticking up? I'm thinking that that's the handle to
remove the plug.
Another question: When I removed the air filter box, I noticed some oil in
the bottom, on the engine side of the filter. Is this something to worry
about? I can't think of where it might be coming from, unless it's just
accumulated goo from fuel vapors.
Again, thanks
Bill
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 5:28 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: Warmup Saga- The End?
Brandon,
I tried my “experiment” again. This time I slowly heated the entire warmup
regulator (off of the car) while simultaneously supplying 12v to the
bimetallic strip. When it got up to 150 degrees (hot, but I could still
handle it, uncomfortably), I quickly attached the fuel supply hose to the
regulator, and cranked the motor over. I was dismayed to find that fuel
still flowed through the regulator. I measured the temperature at the
completion of the experiment, and it was still warm (115 degrees), so I had
it heat soaked pretty good.
At this point, I’m leaning toward replacing it.
Thoughts?
-Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 5:47 PM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: Warmup Saga- The End?
I'd try it on the car, all connected first. Then if it doesn't work, chuck it.
~Brandon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 5:28 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: Warmup Saga- The End?
Brandon,
I tried my “experiment” again. This time I slowly heated the entire warmup
regulator (off of the car) while simultaneously supplying 12v to the
bimetallic strip. When it got up to 150 degrees (hot, but I could still
handle it, uncomfortably), I quickly attached the fuel supply hose to the
regulator, and cranked the motor over. I was dismayed to find that fuel
still flowed through the regulator. I measured the temperature at the
completion of the experiment, and it was still warm (115 degrees), so I had
it heat soaked pretty good.
At this point, I’m leaning toward replacing it.
Thoughts?
-Bill
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 6:19 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: RE: Warmup Saga- The End?
Yeah, I suppose it would be stupid not to! Earlier you mentioned that the
Bosch unit should be about $115, rather than the $315 I've been seeing. Do
you have a good source?
But first I'll put it on and try again...
-Bill
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Whitehead, Brandon" <Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu>
To: "'Bill Strand'" <billstrand@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Warmup Saga- The End?
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:47:14 -0700
I'd try it on the car, all connected first. Then if it doesn't work, chuck
it.
~Brandon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 5:28 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: Warmup Saga- The End?
Brandon,
I tried my "experiment" again. This time I slowly heated the entire warmup
regulator (off of the car) while simultaneously supplying 12v to the
bimetallic strip. When it got up to 150 degrees (hot, but I could still
handle it, uncomfortably), I quickly attached the fuel supply hose to the
regulator, and cranked the motor over. I was dismayed to find that fuel
still flowed through the regulator. I measured the temperature at the
completion of the experiment, and it was still warm (115 degrees), so I had
it heat soaked pretty good.
At this point, I'm leaning toward replacing it.
Thoughts?
-Bill
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 9:11 AM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: questions...clues?
Hi Brandon,
Hope you're not getting tired of me yet, as you are supplying the supplement
to my Haynes manual- all those little secrets that Mr. Haynes kept to
himself.
Okay, here are the results of yesterday's mechanical/electrical/fuel labors:
1) I reinstalled the cleaned-up warmup regulator on the engine.
2) Cranked the engine over repeatedly, but no joy.
3) Realized I wasn't hearing the momentary buzz of the external fuel pump
that I have grown accustomed to hearing immediately after de-energizing the
starter after a no-start.
Q1: Is this audible buzz normal?
4) Checked 16 amp fuel pump fuse- blown. Replaced with new 16 amp fuse. Blew
again. Replaced with 20 amp fuse. No blow this time.
My guess is that the since I had the fuel line disconnected, the fuel pumps
were both working hard to bleed/recharge the system. I wouldn't normally
expect this to happen, but this situation isn't normal. Perhaps a clue?: If
one/both of the fuel pumps were on the way out (bearings or whatever), the
extra load on the electric motor would cause more current draw. More than
the rated 16 amps, but less than 20. I need to stick the 16 back in and see
if blows again. May be an area to revisit later.
5) Resumed the cranking process, with fuel pressure this time. Finally got
'er running with the help of a squirt of ether.
6) Ran engine until warm.
7) Connected DVM to oxygen sensor lead with sensor in place physically and
electrically.
The sensor output 0.0v at idle. As I slowly increased engine speed, I found
that the sensor began to output voltage abruptly at about 1500 rpm's. Above
1500 rpm's, the sensor output bounced around 0.5v, +/-.25v. I ran the engine
up and down a few times, and the 1500 rpm threshold on the sensor output
repeated.
Q2: Is the 1500 rpm voltage threshold normal?
Q3: Is the output I observed above 1500 rpm's normal? (I believe I saw saw
those figures somewhere in the digest)
Notes:
a) Earlier, when I couldn't start the engine because of a blown fuse, I took
a spark plug out and looked at it (the plugs have just over 100 miles on
them). It had a layer of soot on it, so I've been running rich (I already
figured that out, due to excesive fuel consumption).
b) Much earlier, just after I finished the transmission work and got the car
running, I had attempted to adjust the idle. Mr. Haynes didn't offer
extensive help, so I fell back on my carburetor background (I was in college
in the mid '70's and my German car of choice was the VW bug. Fuel injection?
That was for diesels. My best friend was into Opels. But I digress...). To
adjust the idle, I went for the throttle stop. I loosened the lock nut and
ran the screw in until I got a 900 rpm idle.
c) In the last few days, I've learned that the idle is supposed to be
adjusted by using a brass screw, near the throttle stop. I've also read that
there is supposed to be a set gap between the throttle stop and the arm.
Last night, I tried to turn the idle screw while the engine was idling and
warm. It moved grudgingly, and only about 1/4 turn max. Turning it did not
change the idle speed, but it did cause the sound of air-suckage to change
slightly.
d) I have not messed with the fuel mixture adjustment screw on the fuel
distributor yet- need to get a long 6mm wrench.
Q4) At what rpm should the engine be when adjusting the fuel mixture?
I'll stop asking questions for now- this is getting a too long. I can get a
bit anal on details, as I work in a testing lab environment (aerodynamic).
I'm tempted to give up and just throw money at it, and end my suffering (and
yours!), but I really want to learn this system. As you know, that can't be
done by just reading about it (especially Haynes), so I'm finding your
information invaluable.
Thanks,
Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 9:50 AM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: questions...clues?
No, No, I love your inquiries. It took me a ferkin long time to figure that
system out, and now that I've sold my 320i, I don't want it to go to waste.
I have some ideas and things for you to try, but as I am at work, and its
gonna be a long one, I better wait till I get home at 5pm this evening pac
time. I will let you know then.
~Brandon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 9:11 AM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: questions...clues?
Hi Brandon,
Hope you're not getting tired of me yet, as you are supplying the supplement
to my Haynes manual- all those little secrets that Mr. Haynes kept to
himself.
Okay, here are the results of yesterday's mechanical/electrical/fuel labors:
1) I reinstalled the cleaned-up warmup regulator on the engine.
2) Cranked the engine over repeatedly, but no joy.
3) Realized I wasn't hearing the momentary buzz of the external fuel pump
that I have grown accustomed to hearing immediately after de-energizing the
starter after a no-start.
Q1: Is this audible buzz normal?
4) Checked 16 amp fuel pump fuse- blown. Replaced with new 16 amp fuse. Blew
again. Replaced with 20 amp fuse. No blow this time.
My guess is that the since I had the fuel line disconnected, the fuel pumps
were both working hard to bleed/recharge the system. I wouldn't normally
expect this to happen, but this situation isn't normal. Perhaps a clue?: If
one/both of the fuel pumps were on the way out (bearings or whatever), the
extra load on the electric motor would cause more current draw. More than
the rated 16 amps, but less than 20. I need to stick the 16 back in and see
if blows again. May be an area to revisit later.
5) Resumed the cranking process, with fuel pressure this time. Finally got
'er running with the help of a squirt of ether.
6) Ran engine until warm.
7) Connected DVM to oxygen sensor lead with sensor in place physically and
electrically.
The sensor output 0.0v at idle. As I slowly increased engine speed, I found
that the sensor began to output voltage abruptly at about 1500 rpm's. Above
1500 rpm's, the sensor output bounced around 0.5v, +/-.25v. I ran the engine
up and down a few times, and the 1500 rpm threshold on the sensor output
repeated.
Q2: Is the 1500 rpm voltage threshold normal?
Q3: Is the output I observed above 1500 rpm's normal? (I believe I saw saw
those figures somewhere in the digest)
Notes:
a) Earlier, when I couldn't start the engine because of a blown fuse, I took
a spark plug out and looked at it (the plugs have just over 100 miles on
them). It had a layer of soot on it, so I've been running rich (I already
figured that out, due to excesive fuel consumption).
b) Much earlier, just after I finished the transmission work and got the car
running, I had attempted to adjust the idle. Mr. Haynes didn't offer
extensive help, so I fell back on my carburetor background (I was in college
in the mid '70's and my German car of choice was the VW bug. Fuel injection?
That was for diesels. My best friend was into Opels. But I digress...). To
adjust the idle, I went for the throttle stop. I loosened the lock nut and
ran the screw in until I got a 900 rpm idle.
c) In the last few days, I've learned that the idle is supposed to be
adjusted by using a brass screw, near the throttle stop. I've also read that
there is supposed to be a set gap between the throttle stop and the arm.
Last night, I tried to turn the idle screw while the engine was idling and
warm. It moved grudgingly, and only about 1/4 turn max. Turning it did not
change the idle speed, but it did cause the sound of air-suckage to change
slightly.
d) I have not messed with the fuel mixture adjustment screw on the fuel
distributor yet- need to get a long 6mm wrench.
Q4) At what rpm should the engine be when adjusting the fuel mixture?
I'll stop asking questions for now- this is getting a too long. I can get a
bit anal on details, as I work in a testing lab environment (aerodynamic).
I'm tempted to give up and just throw money at it, and end my suffering (and
yours!), but I really want to learn this system. As you know, that can't be
done by just reading about it (especially Haynes), so I'm finding your
information invaluable.
Thanks,
Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:04 PM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: questions...clues?
Look for my replies in the body. they are in ()'s Keep the questions coming.
From reading your note, its sounds like the system is pretty out of whack. it
may take a while of adjusting here and there to get back in order, so don't get
frustrated if changing one thing doesn't do the job. All the ajustments are
dependent on one another. One ajustment affects most of the other ones. That
is why its challenging.
~Brandon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 9:11 AM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: questions...clues?
Hi Brandon,
Hope you're not getting tired of me yet, as you are supplying the supplement
to my Haynes manual- all those little secrets that Mr. Haynes kept to
himself.
Okay, here are the results of yesterday's mechanical/electrical/fuel labors:
1) I reinstalled the cleaned-up warmup regulator on the engine.
2) Cranked the engine over repeatedly, but no joy.
3) Realized I wasn't hearing the momentary buzz of the external fuel pump
that I have grown accustomed to hearing immediately after de-energizing the
starter after a no-start.
Q1: Is this audible buzz normal?
(the buzz is coming from the engine right? Its the frequency valve releving
the system pressure. You should hear the buzz.)
4) Checked 16 amp fuel pump fuse- blown. Replaced with new 16 amp fuse. Blew
again. Replaced with 20 amp fuse. No blow this time.
My guess is that the since I had the fuel line disconnected, the fuel pumps
were both working hard to bleed/recharge the system. I wouldn't normally
expect this to happen, but this situation isn't normal. Perhaps a clue?: If
one/both of the fuel pumps were on the way out (bearings or whatever), the
extra load on the electric motor would cause more current draw. More than
the rated 16 amps, but less than 20. I need to stick the 16 back in and see
if blows again. May be an area to revisit later.
(Sounds like your pump may be going)
5) Resumed the cranking process, with fuel pressure this time. Finally got
'er running with the help of a squirt of ether.
6) Ran engine until warm.
7) Connected DVM to oxygen sensor lead with sensor in place physically and
electrically.
The sensor output 0.0v at idle. As I slowly increased engine speed, I found
that the sensor began to output voltage abruptly at about 1500 rpm's. Above
1500 rpm's, the sensor output bounced around 0.5v, +/-.25v. I ran the engine
up and down a few times, and the 1500 rpm threshold on the sensor output
repeated.
Q2: Is the 1500 rpm voltage threshold normal?
(No, its not a speed, but a temperature. Once the engine reaches a certain
temperature, the system goes into a closed loop, and the o2 works all the time.
Otherwise it is disabled entirely and runs rich if the engine isn't warm enough,
or goes into a 50% duty cycle if it is warm enough but disconnected or not
working)
Q3: Is the output I observed above 1500 rpm's normal? (I believe I saw saw
those figures somewhere in the digest)
(The figures sound good to me. Optimum mixture should result in a reading of
.4V but because the system works by bleeding pressure, a little high is ok, it
will just compensate. The system can make the mix leaner, not richer.)
Notes:
a) Earlier, when I couldn't start the engine because of a blown fuse, I took
a spark plug out and looked at it (the plugs have just over 100 miles on
them). It had a layer of soot on it, so I've been running rich (I already
figured that out, due to excesive fuel consumption).
(Maybe the sensor is going by the wayside. How old is it. It should be replace
i beleive every 50k miles)
b) Much earlier, just after I finished the transmission work and got the car
running, I had attempted to adjust the idle. Mr. Haynes didn't offer
extensive help, so I fell back on my carburetor background (I was in college
in the mid '70's and my German car of choice was the VW bug. Fuel injection?
That was for diesels. My best friend was into Opels. But I digress...). To
adjust the idle, I went for the throttle stop. I loosened the lock nut and
ran the screw in until I got a 900 rpm idle.
(don't mess with the throttle stop. see if you can get it back to where it was.
If its open to far, your idle will be REALLY high when the system is working.
To adjust the idle, its a big 10mm wide flat screw in the side of the throttle
body. it should turn freely both directions. You may just have it screwed in
all the way because you changed the plate. The plate should close all of the
way I beleive. Extra air enteres the system via the idle screw or the aux air
valve (when cold)
c) In the last few days, I've learned that the idle is supposed to be
adjusted by using a brass screw, near the throttle stop. I've also read that
there is supposed to be a set gap between the throttle stop and the arm.
Last night, I tried to turn the idle screw while the engine was idling and
warm. It moved grudgingly, and only about 1/4 turn max. Turning it did not
change the idle speed, but it did cause the sound of air-suckage to change
slightly.
(maybe getting more air, but the mix may be so far off that its not making a
difference. it should move freely, but with a little resistance)
d) I have not messed with the fuel mixture adjustment screw on the fuel
distributor yet- need to get a long 6mm wrench.
Q4) At what rpm should the engine be when adjusting the fuel mixture?
(I'd adjust it at idle, but check the o2 at 2500 or so)
I'll stop asking questions for now- this is getting a too long. I can get a
bit anal on details, as I work in a testing lab environment (aerodynamic).
I'm tempted to give up and just throw money at it, and end my suffering (and
yours!), but I really want to learn this system. As you know, that can't be
done by just reading about it (especially Haynes), so I'm finding your
information invaluable.
Thanks,
Bill
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:12 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: summary
Just one final note before you let me have it:
After all I've told you, the warm start problem hasn't changed. All I've
really done is clean the warmup regulator and put in a new oxygen sensor.
Hey, how do I get that annoying oxygen sensor light to go out?
Looking forward to hearing from you,
-Bill
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:28 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: you know....
Q2: Is the 1500 rpm voltage threshold normal?
(No, its not a speed, but a temperature. Once the engine reaches a certain
temperature, the system goes into a closed loop, and the o2 works all the
time. Otherwise it is disabled entirely and runs rich if the engine isn't
warm enough, or goes into a 50% duty cycle if it is warm enough but
disconnected or not working)
Sounds like I didn’t get the engine warm enough idling in the driveway, and
was running rich at idle. I’ll drive it around a bit next time. How does
rich/lean correspond to 0v-1v output on the oxygen sensor?
* * * * * * * * ** * * **
Last night, I tried to turn the idle screw while the engine was idling and
warm. It moved grudgingly, and only about 1/4 turn max. Turning it did not
change the idle speed, but it did cause the sound of air-suckage to change
slightly.
(maybe getting more air, but the mix may be so far off that its not making a
difference. it should move freely, but with a little resistance)
So it should turn significantly farther then ¼ turn? It looks a bit
corroded. Maybe I just need to work it gently a while.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
I won’t be working on the car again until maybe Sunday afternoon (going to
see the Who at the Gorge in George), so you can relax for a while.
Later,
-Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:29 PM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: summary
follow the speedo cable from the firewall to a box that is about 3 x 3 x 5.
There is a button on the backside (towards the front) where you can't see it.
It is recessed. Use a pencil or the such to push it in.
~B
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:12 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: summary
Just one final note before you let me have it:
After all I've told you, the warm start problem hasn't changed. All I've
really done is clean the warmup regulator and put in a new oxygen sensor.
Hey, how do I get that annoying oxygen sensor light to go out?
Looking forward to hearing from you,
-Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:38 PM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: you know....
O2 sensor...
0v = REALLY lean, over 1v is pretty rich.
Idle screw... its a screw. Screw it out and clean it up and put it back in.
I've never don it, but it should be pretty straitforward. It will turn over
at least 3 or 4 times.
~Brandon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:28 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: you know....
Q2: Is the 1500 rpm voltage threshold normal?
(No, its not a speed, but a temperature. Once the engine reaches a certain
temperature, the system goes into a closed loop, and the o2 works all the
time. Otherwise it is disabled entirely and runs rich if the engine isn't
warm enough, or goes into a 50% duty cycle if it is warm enough but
disconnected or not working)
Sounds like I didn’t get the engine warm enough idling in the driveway, and
was running rich at idle. I’ll drive it around a bit next time. How does
rich/lean correspond to 0v-1v output on the oxygen sensor?
* * * * * * * * ** * * **
Last night, I tried to turn the idle screw while the engine was idling and
warm. It moved grudgingly, and only about 1/4 turn max. Turning it did not
change the idle speed, but it did cause the sound of air-suckage to change
slightly.
(maybe getting more air, but the mix may be so far off that its not making a
difference. it should move freely, but with a little resistance)
So it should turn significantly farther then ¼ turn? It looks a bit
corroded. Maybe I just need to work it gently a while.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
I won’t be working on the car again until maybe Sunday afternoon (going to
see the Who at the Gorge in George), so you can relax for a while.
Later,
-Bill
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 10:35 AM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: 8/22/00 update
Brandon,
I found some time to do a little tinkering with the fuel system last night:
I backed off the stop screw on the throttle arm, which I had previously used
to adjust the idle. My Haynes book describes an adjustment to the throttle
butterfly valve, but the book is geared toward British/Euro cars, and my
car's a little bit different. The adjustment involves making sure that the
butterfly valve is completely closed at zero throttle, then setting the stop
so that is doesn't slam shut and get stuck. Are you familiar with such an
adjustment?
The idle adjustment screw was pretty corroded, so I sprayed it with WD-40
and worked it for a while. It loosened up, and I was able to use it to set
the idle.
I drove the car around to make sure it was up to temperature, then I
attacked the fuel adjustment screw on the fuel distributer. I noticed that
when I applied pressure to the screw with the wrench, the idle would change.
I turned the screw about +/- 90 degrees from its original setting, and came
up with a spot where it seemed to idle highest. I put a meter on the oxygen
sensor, and got a measurement that was "averaging" about 0.5v @ 2500 rpm.
I then let the car cool for about an hour, and tried a "warm start". Would
not start.
This morning, I tried a cold start. Still would not start. Rather, it would
start and run for a few seconds before shutting off. I could run it up to
about 2500 rpm, then it would just die.
FWIW: I filled the tank up and checked the mileage: 18.5 mpg. This was on
in-town roads, and with lots of idling and troubleshooting. I also put the
16 amp fuse back in for the fuel pump, and it has not blown yet.
What next? I was thinking the cold start valve...
-Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 11:35 AM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: 8/22/00 update
Hmm. Yes, the idle adjustment sounds correct, but as long as you get it close
to closed, the idle screw compensates. As for pushing on the screw, you were
essentially pushing down on the air meter flap, thereby making the system think
there is less air, and starving it of fuel. That is why it idled lower.
Have you checked out the cold start/aux air valve? It should be open an amount
that is related to the tempature of the engine, and closes as it gets warmer.
It too is controlled by a bimetallic strip that twists, and also gets 12V to a
heater when the car is on. Its pretty easy to test/clean. Just spray some
WD-40, clean out the gunk, and plug her in. It should slowly, and smoothly
close as it gets hotter. It also adds unmetered air which in turn is compensated
by the extra fuel from the warmup regulator. Confusing system. Getting the mix
right between the two when warm hot and cold is the hardes part.
Anyway, try this. Remember where the mixture is set, then try to turn it either
way and see if you can get the car to start cold. This will basically let me
know the general status of the system from hot to cold. I can probably diagnose
the problem from there.
Let me know what you find out.
~Brandon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 10:35 AM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: 8/22/00 update
Brandon,
I found some time to do a little tinkering with the fuel system last night:
I backed off the stop screw on the throttle arm, which I had previously used
to adjust the idle. My Haynes book describes an adjustment to the throttle
butterfly valve, but the book is geared toward British/Euro cars, and my
car's a little bit different. The adjustment involves making sure that the
butterfly valve is completely closed at zero throttle, then setting the stop
so that is doesn't slam shut and get stuck. Are you familiar with such an
adjustment?
The idle adjustment screw was pretty corroded, so I sprayed it with WD-40
and worked it for a while. It loosened up, and I was able to use it to set
the idle.
I drove the car around to make sure it was up to temperature, then I
attacked the fuel adjustment screw on the fuel distributer. I noticed that
when I applied pressure to the screw with the wrench, the idle would change.
I turned the screw about +/- 90 degrees from its original setting, and came
up with a spot where it seemed to idle highest. I put a meter on the oxygen
sensor, and got a measurement that was "averaging" about 0.5v @ 2500 rpm.
I then let the car cool for about an hour, and tried a "warm start". Would
not start.
This morning, I tried a cold start. Still would not start. Rather, it would
start and run for a few seconds before shutting off. I could run it up to
about 2500 rpm, then it would just die.
FWIW: I filled the tank up and checked the mileage: 18.5 mpg. This was on
in-town roads, and with lots of idling and troubleshooting. I also put the
16 amp fuse back in for the fuel pump, and it has not blown yet.
What next? I was thinking the cold start valve...
-Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 8:13 AM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: 8/22/00 update
How are things coming along?
~B
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 10:35 AM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: 8/22/00 update
Brandon,
I found some time to do a little tinkering with the fuel system last night:
I backed off the stop screw on the throttle arm, which I had previously used
to adjust the idle. My Haynes book describes an adjustment to the throttle
butterfly valve, but the book is geared toward British/Euro cars, and my
car's a little bit different. The adjustment involves making sure that the
butterfly valve is completely closed at zero throttle, then setting the stop
so that is doesn't slam shut and get stuck. Are you familiar with such an
adjustment?
The idle adjustment screw was pretty corroded, so I sprayed it with WD-40
and worked it for a while. It loosened up, and I was able to use it to set
the idle.
I drove the car around to make sure it was up to temperature, then I
attacked the fuel adjustment screw on the fuel distributer. I noticed that
when I applied pressure to the screw with the wrench, the idle would change.
I turned the screw about +/- 90 degrees from its original setting, and came
up with a spot where it seemed to idle highest. I put a meter on the oxygen
sensor, and got a measurement that was "averaging" about 0.5v @ 2500 rpm.
I then let the car cool for about an hour, and tried a "warm start". Would
not start.
This morning, I tried a cold start. Still would not start. Rather, it would
start and run for a few seconds before shutting off. I could run it up to
about 2500 rpm, then it would just die.
FWIW: I filled the tank up and checked the mileage: 18.5 mpg. This was on
in-town roads, and with lots of idling and troubleshooting. I also put the
16 amp fuse back in for the fuel pump, and it has not blown yet.
What next? I was thinking the cold start valve...
-Bill
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:18 AM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: progress report
Hey, I was just sitting at my PC at work writing to you when your e-mail
arrived. But then I had to go do some actual work. How inconvenient. I'll
finish what I was writing and get back to you soon. Progress has been made!
I drove the car to work today.
-Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:20 AM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: progress report
GREAT!
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:18 AM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: progress report
Hey, I was just sitting at my PC at work writing to you when your e-mail
arrived. But then I had to go do some actual work. How inconvenient. I'll
finish what I was writing and get back to you soon. Progress has been made!
I drove the car to work today.
-Bill
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 12:07 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: Here it is!
Hi Brandon,
I had to take a couple of days off from automotive work to clean up my
garage. Seems I was spending more time looking for tools than I was
performing any work.
Let's see, where were we. I had cleaned the warmup regulator, set the idle,
and adjusted the fuel mixture on the fuel distributor. The engine ran good
warm, and would do warm starts OK, but the next morning when it was a bit
cooler, it wouldn't start. You suggested that I try turning the mixture
screw on the distributor a little bit at a time until the engine would start
cold.
So, here's what I did:
1) Checked to make sure I was getting power to cold start injector and the
aux air valve. Affirmative.
2) Pulled off the aux air valve and looked through it. The book says it
should be about ½ open at ambient temperature, so I was a little surprised
to see just a small orifice. Then I realized that the orifice was for
metering the air, and it was about half closed. I cleaned it like you said.
Then I warmed it up and saw the orifice close. I threw it in the freezer and
in opened up again partway. The book says that it won't open all the way
until about -20 degrees F.
3) Reinstalled everything and tried starting it. No go. So I pulled out my
hex wrench and turned the fuel mixture screw 1/4 turn counterclockwise. No
go. I tried 1/4 turn from the original position clockwise. Almost started.
Did this a couple of more times until it started right up every time. I had
turned the screw 3/4 of a turn clockwise. I believe I leaned the mixture a
bit, is that right?
4) Took the car out for a drive to get it nice and warm. Don't know if this
means anything, but I made a slow speed, very tight 120 degree left turn,
and the engine died. It started right back up, though. Have not tried any
more turning experiments.
5) Hooked up a DVM to the o2 sensor and ran the engine up around 2000-2500
rpm. DVM was bouncing between .2-.85 volts. DVM's only display "snapshots"
as they sample, though.
6) Hooked up my old analog meter to the sensor, and it did just a slight
waver around .5 volts. So it looks like the average voltage is about .5
volts.
7) Tried some hot starts and some warm starts. No problem.
8) This morning I had to try about 3 times before it kept running. It didn't
want to idle until I gave it some throttle and let it warm up a bit.
If I did, indeed, lean the mixture in step 3 above, here is what I'm
thinking: The mixture is still a bit rich at cold start. Then it gets warm
and the o2 sensor takes over. So maybe I should go a bit leaner with the
mixture screw and see how that works tomorrow morning?
Another thing I've noticed at my current settings is that the engine doesn't
want to run over about 4000 rpm when I'm driving. It begins to sputter a
bit. It seems to have plenty of torque up to about 3000 rpm, then drops off
above that. I was thinking about running a lead from the o2 sensor into the
car, so I could watch my meter while driving. That way I could see how my
mixture looks under load.
Note: during this process, no changes were made to the idle setting. It
remained at about 950 on my car's tach.
Your thoughts?
-Bill
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 3:19 PM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: Here it is!
Hmm... interresting.. per the usual, I will comment in the body.
I had to take a couple of days off from automotive work to clean up my
garage. Seems I was spending more time looking for tools than I was
performing any work.
(I just did the same... took me all day)
Let's see, where were we. I had cleaned the warmup regulator, set the idle,
and adjusted the fuel mixture on the fuel distributor. The engine ran good
warm, and would do warm starts OK, but the next morning when it was a bit
cooler, it wouldn't start. You suggested that I try turning the mixture
screw on the distributor a little bit at a time until the engine would start
cold.
So, here's what I did:
1) Checked to make sure I was getting power to cold start injector and the
aux air valve. Affirmative.
2) Pulled off the aux air valve and looked through it. The book says it
should be about ½ open at ambient temperature, so I was a little surprised
to see just a small orifice. Then I realized that the orifice was for
metering the air, and it was about half closed. I cleaned it like you said.
Then I warmed it up and saw the orifice close. I threw it in the freezer and
in opened up again partway. The book says that it won't open all the way
until about -20 degrees F.
(Cleaning probably helped.)
3) Reinstalled everything and tried starting it. No go. So I pulled out my
hex wrench and turned the fuel mixture screw 1/4 turn counterclockwise. No
go. I tried 1/4 turn from the original position clockwise. Almost started.
Did this a couple of more times until it started right up every time. I had
turned the screw 3/4 of a turn clockwise. I believe I leaned the mixture a
bit, is that right?
4) Took the car out for a drive to get it nice and warm. Don't know if this
means anything, but I made a slow speed, very tight 120 degree left turn,
and the engine died. It started right back up, though. Have not tried any
more turning experiments.
(Didn't you mention something about blowing a fuel pump fuse. Our van keep
dying on us on random bumps. My thought, fuel pump. Took it to be repaired,
fuel pump.... bearing was going on it. Sounds like your fuel pump may be
going, and messes up under stress.)
5) Hooked up a DVM to the o2 sensor and ran the engine up around 2000-2500
rpm. DVM was bouncing between .2-.85 volts. DVM's only display "snapshots"
as they sample, though.
(It will try to stay around .4 because that is what the system is aiming for,
so of course it will be around that much. The goal is to eliminate bouncing.
It sounds like your mix was a bit off)
6) Hooked up my old analog meter to the sensor, and it did just a slight
waver around .5 volts. So it looks like the average voltage is about .5
volts.
7) Tried some hot starts and some warm starts. No problem.
8) This morning I had to try about 3 times before it kept running. It didn't
want to idle until I gave it some throttle and let it warm up a bit.
If I did, indeed, lean the mixture in step 3 above, here is what I'm
thinking: The mixture is still a bit rich at cold start. Then it gets warm
and the o2 sensor takes over. So maybe I should go a bit leaner with the
mixture screw and see how that works tomorrow morning?
(I think counter clockwise is leaner, but I'm not sure. Here is something to
try. My thought is that if its running fine hot, then the mix is right, or at
least close. This may be caused by the following: if the cold start injector
is leaking (which can happen) the extra fuel can make the car run rich, but you
probably compensated by making it leaner. Here is what I think. You are running
fine warm most of the time. Mix good. The car is going to hesitate much more
under a lean condition than a rich one, so its probably running lean. This is
probably why it doesn't start cold well.. its too lean. So.. I'd make the mix
a little richer, and try the following. Let your car get cold, disconnect the
cold fuel injector, and place the end in a jar. Crank the engine. The thing
should at least dribble fuel. However, as soon as you stop cranking it should
close completely (no fuel). Let me know how the cold start injector works.)
Another thing I've noticed at my current settings is that the engine doesn't
want to run over about 4000 rpm when I'm driving. It begins to sputter a
bit. It seems to have plenty of torque up to about 3000 rpm, then drops off
above that. I was thinking about running a lead from the o2 sensor into the
car, so I could watch my meter while driving. That way I could see how my
mixture looks under load.
(like I said.. its probably running lean. You might also want to check to see
if your full throttle position switch, near the throttle cable, is working
correctly. Basically, like I've said before, the car is supposed to run a
little rich, which is corrected by the frequency valve. When this switch is
closed, ie close to full throttle, or close to it, it shuts off the function
of the frequency valve, thereby making your mix richer which it needs at full
throttle.)
Note: during this process, no changes were made to the idle setting. It
remained at about 950 on my car's tach.
Your thoughts?
-Bill
Isn't this system fun. By the time we are done, we will have another k-jet
expert to add to the pool.
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 4:26 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: Yahoo
Hi Brandon,
I think we’re pretty close to “there”.
I checked the cold start injector and it worked as advertised- emitted a
nice mist while I was cranking the engine over.
Next, I turned the fuel screw in (rich- right?) about a quarter turn. I
cranked the engine over (cold), and it started right up!
Since then, I’ve had success with cold, warm, and hot starts. I think I may
try just a touch richer, ‘cuz sometimes she gives me a little trouble with
the early morning cold starts. But that will have to wait until I get
another 3mm hex wrench. I guess the engine got tired of me tweaking, so it
ate my wrench. It fell somewhere around the oil filter, but I can’t find it.
I’ve tried poking around with magnets and wires, but I can’t shake it loose-
or even see it! Oh well.
While I was looking for my hex wrench, I noticed a sensor dangling loose on
the front of the engine. It used to attach to some sort of bracket that
sticks off the front of the engine, just below where both radiator hoses
enter the engine. Since there’s nothing on the bracket, where it was
attached, to be measured, I’m thinking it must be the air temperature
sensor. Maybe it used to be a bracket temperature, but now it is truly an
air temperature, as it’s just hanging out in space! Is it what I think it
is?
Anyway, I want to give you my sincere thanks for all the help you’ve given
me. Not that I won’t be asking you for any further advice- there’s still
plenty I don’t know, but would like to learn. I plan on getting a book on
the fuel injection system. Can you recommend anything?
Now I’m free to attack the other little things that need to be done, such as
the brakes, exhaust, 30mph rumble, etc., etc.
I did drive the car out to the ocean and back on Saturday (125 mile each
way), and it ran and handled great. Plenty of power way up beyond 3000 rpm.
It got roughly 28 mpg on that trip. The sharp-left-turn problem turned out
to be a poor battery connection. I’ve had no more problems since cleaning
and tightening the terminals, and I’ve been running the prescribed 16 amp
fuse for the fuel pumps.
If you have any questions about ‘60’s Fords, just send me a note!
Thanks again,
Bill
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
From: Whitehead, Brandon
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 10:09 AM
To: 'Bill Strand'
Subject: RE: Yahoo
Let me know what else you do to make the system work perfectly. I would also
like permission to post this thread on my web page. I think it may give some
good insight to others like yourself.
~Brandon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 4:26 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: Yahoo
Hi Brandon,
I think we’re pretty close to “there”.
I checked the cold start injector and it worked as advertised- emitted a
nice mist while I was cranking the engine over.
Next, I turned the fuel screw in (rich- right?) about a quarter turn. I
cranked the engine over (cold), and it started right up!
Since then, I’ve had success with cold, warm, and hot starts. I think I may
try just a touch richer, ‘cuz sometimes she gives me a little trouble with
the early morning cold starts. But that will have to wait until I get
another 3mm hex wrench. I guess the engine got tired of me tweaking, so it
ate my wrench. It fell somewhere around the oil filter, but I can’t find it.
I’ve tried poking around with magnets and wires, but I can’t shake it loose-
or even see it! Oh well.
While I was looking for my hex wrench, I noticed a sensor dangling loose on
the front of the engine. It used to attach to some sort of bracket that
sticks off the front of the engine, just below where both radiator hoses
enter the engine. Since there’s nothing on the bracket, where it was
attached, to be measured, I’m thinking it must be the air temperature
sensor. Maybe it used to be a bracket temperature, but now it is truly an
air temperature, as it’s just hanging out in space! Is it what I think it
is?
Anyway, I want to give you my sincere thanks for all the help you’ve given
me. Not that I won’t be asking you for any further advice- there’s still
plenty I don’t know, but would like to learn. I plan on getting a book on
the fuel injection system. Can you recommend anything?
Now I’m free to attack the other little things that need to be done, such as
the brakes, exhaust, 30mph rumble, etc., etc.
I did drive the car out to the ocean and back on Saturday (125 mile each
way), and it ran and handled great. Plenty of power way up beyond 3000 rpm.
It got roughly 28 mpg on that trip. The sharp-left-turn problem turned out
to be a poor battery connection. I’ve had no more problems since cleaning
and tightening the terminals, and I’ve been running the prescribed 16 amp
fuse for the fuel pumps.
If you have any questions about ‘60’s Fords, just send me a note!
Thanks again,
Bill
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
From: Bill Strand [billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 1:15 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: RE: Yahoo
You have my permission. I was going to gather all the e-mail together and
edit it and make it available to any other digest members who might need it,
but that will be as time permits. I'll keep you posted on any other changes
I make to the fuel system, and the result.
-Bill
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Whitehead, Brandon" <Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu>
To: "'Bill Strand'" <billstrand@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Yahoo
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:09:13 -0700
Let me know what else you do to make the system work perfectly. I would
also like permission to post this thread on my web page. I think it may
give some good insight to others like yourself.
~Brandon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Strand [mailto:billstrand@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 4:26 PM
To: Brandon.Whitehead@orst.edu
Subject: Yahoo
Hi Brandon,
I think we're pretty close to "there".
I checked the cold start injector and it worked as advertised- emitted a
nice mist while I was cranking the engine over.
Next, I turned the fuel screw in (rich- right?) about a quarter turn. I
cranked the engine over (cold), and it started right up!
Since then, I've had success with cold, warm, and hot starts. I think I may
try just a touch richer, 'cuz sometimes she gives me a little trouble with
the early morning cold starts. But that will have to wait until I get
another 3mm hex wrench. I guess the engine got tired of me tweaking, so it
ate my wrench. It fell somewhere around the oil filter, but I can't find it.
I've tried poking around with magnets and wires, but I can't shake it loose-
or even see it! Oh well.
While I was looking for my hex wrench, I noticed a sensor dangling loose on
the front of the engine. It used to attach to some sort of bracket that
sticks off the front of the engine, just below where both radiator hoses
enter the engine. Since there's nothing on the bracket, where it was
attached, to be measured, I'm thinking it must be the air temperature
sensor. Maybe it used to be a bracket temperature, but now it is truly an
air temperature, as it's just hanging out in space! Is it what I think it
is?
Anyway, I want to give you my sincere thanks for all the help you've given
me. Not that I won't be asking you for any further advice- there's still
plenty I don't know, but would like to learn. I plan on getting a book on
the fuel injection system. Can you recommend anything?
Now I'm free to attack the other little things that need to be done, such as
the brakes, exhaust, 30mph rumble, etc., etc.
I did drive the car out to the ocean and back on Saturday (125 mile each
way), and it ran and handled great. Plenty of power way up beyond 3000 rpm.
It got roughly 28 mpg on that trip. The sharp-left-turn problem turned out
to be a poor battery connection. I've had no more problems since cleaning
and tightening the terminals, and I've been running the prescribed 16 amp
fuse for the fuel pumps.
If you have any questions about '60's Fords, just send me a note!
Thanks again,
Bill